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Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 02:00 am:   

T-mobile has blocked there gaateway proxy servers (To most of their MVNOs anyways) aand now mms is sent direct to the MMSC with no proxy server (The block you if you attempt to use it). Is there a way to send direct to the MMSC without using an android phone? Say I wanted to use a modem. I have tried testing using NowWap, but the trial expired in a coupe hours instead of 30 days, so didnt figure much out there.
Des - NowSMS Support
Board Administrator
Username: Desosms

Post Number: 5663
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 03:10 am:   

Hi,

Using NowWAP will not help because it is not inside the operator network.

Using an Android device as a modem is the best solution.

I'm going to refer this back to our engineering department to reevaluate how we can support this for dedicated modem devices. But I don't expect a quick resolution because I know we've looked at it before, but maybe we have learned more since we can support it in the Android configuration.

Assuming you have only one modem, a work-around is to edit the Windows network connection that NowSMS creates (NowSMS - modem name) and change the TCP/IP setting for "use default gateway on remote network"...exact procedure differs in different Windows versions. The downside is that if you are connecting to NowSMS from other clients on your local network, this setting will drop that connectivity while actively sending or receiving MMS. So this is a far from perfect work-around.

--
Des
NowSMS Support

P.S. - All this said, the Android solution offers far better performance for sending and/or receiving MMS, especially with multiple modems.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 05:42 am:   

Hi Des! Thank you for the reply! Usually I believe you would be 100% correct, however in the USA they have started phasing out 2g service and also implanted firewalls on their wap gateways to where if I device is able to send direct to their MMSC it has no other choice, or if its an air card/USB dongle they assume it only for internet and dont alow it through their WAP. Hosting a local wap proxy will allow my devices/software (Like NowSMS with air cards) to submit data directly to them as an android device would when a gateway proxy is not set. I had just started testing this theory with your Nowwap software and just got to where I was able to send MMS out successfully when it expired. Since almost every phone in the US is capable of submitting data without a WAP via http TCP/ip connections they have set firewall rules forcing you to do so, they can see what device you are using and their servers decide if your connection is allow. AT&T is more forgiving, but usually only allows their WAP to be used over a slow GSM connection and not via LTE (Which I can with your NowWap). It is grate peice of software, I just hope if it works out for me I am able to afford it. I think you ill soon be seeing a lot of new customers the more the the carriers phase out old tech. Almost all MVNOs have stopped even offering a WAP gateway option and using the t-mobile or ATT ones do not work. I m really looking forward to using your NowWap product and reporting back with how it can help fill a big void happening in the US currently.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 06:06 am:   

I also wanted to add, your android solution works wonderful, however there are huge limitations to the 2.4ghz wifi spectrum. Depending on what version of 2.4ghz your using you only have 11 channels and 1 channel can be assigned per access point, usually only allowing for 10 devices give ore take to be connected(And you cant use use all 11 channels in close proximity). Actually the design of a standard access point that is not using mimo only supports 1 connection at a time, this causes a lot of lag and disconnects/reconnects. I have an extreme amount of 2.4ghz and 5ghz equipment in use, and the RF interference is insane (In my data center I ha to run all shielded network cables!). Phone that supports 5ghz have a large spectrum to play with, but its still gets very noisy fast, and I dont think there is currently many android devices that support mimo. I have came up with a solution to to this problem by using powered OTA connectors, USB Ethernet adapter and connection hack (Makes your lan connection appear to be the WIFI for the nowSMS app). You also get full gig or 100mbps connections directly to the switch, but not all device will support OTA, specially charging while OTA, but a fair amount do (Had the most luck in android 4.x). This is another reason I do like my GSM moduals over the android devices, they use less power, generate less heat, are more reliable, more affordable with less things to brake. Down side is WAP.
Des - NowSMS Support
Board Administrator
Username: Desosms

Post Number: 5666
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 02:27 pm:   

Hi Jason,

Our customers who use NowSMS as an MMSC are also increasingly implementing or migrating to MMSC configurations without a gateway or proxy. So we are familiar with the issue (and how it works on the operator side).

I fail to see how NowWAP would help, because the operator would see NowWAP as the originator instead of the device. But I won't stop you from trying, and will get that extension code out shortly.

We are actively working on alternative solutions to WiFi for the Android solution, but I can't discuss them yet.

I would caution, however, that MMS bandwidth with NowSMS and multiple directly connected GSM modules is even more constrained. Lets say you have multiple modules with AT&T SIMs...NowSMS needs to use a specific modem's data connection to communicate with the MMSC. IP routing limitations prevent NowSMS from using a different modem's data connection to communicate with the MMSC, until the first is done. (SMS is not an issue, just MMS.)

We designed the Android solution to overcome this limitation. And while WiFi is limited, MMS is relatively low bandwidth, with quite a bit of latency. A good access point can certainly handle more than 10 devices.

--
Des
NowSMS Support
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 01:07 am:   

Its not really a limitation of the access point but the 802.11 standards. 802.11a no matter what AP you have wont support more than 10 clients, now 802.11g,n and AC will support more. If using 802.11g and n you can get up to around 30 but stuff will get messy, even using the wider band 5ghz n. The solution is a mesh network, multiple radios set on a different channels sharing the same SSID but on separate channels. There are 11 channels allocated for legal use in the USA, however you can not have 11 access points as there is over lap between channels, you can get away with 3 access points one at 1, 5 and 11. 801.11AC can support more clients on a single AP, but we don't have any phones that support AC yet and I figure most the old android phones being used for smsnow are not going to be brand new $700 phones, so more than likely they will be using a 802.11a or 802.11 g. ALso have to look at how a radio RX and TX functions, there are only able to transmit and receive 1 connection at a time, it is switching between connections very fast, but still can only transmit to 1 device at a time (Unless mimo is being used), the more devises the more switching is occurring, causing lots of lag and network drop offs ( in a mesh network it would usually drop onto an available connection on a different radio). Now you also have to take into account your neighbors wifi, microwave ovens, other devices on your network, WISPs in the area or other RF interference (There is a TON, specially in busy metro areas). We have had to change our back haul p2p bridges to the 24ghz band because of these issue, but even that band can only have 1 p2p within 5 miles without GPS timing sync between units configured. There really is no over coming these limitations, I am a network engineering graduate and have extensive background in this area. I have been playing with androidx86 in virtual environments and building custom kernels to support 3g dongles with a small amount of luck. There is a lot more reasons WIFI is not a good solution, not only are we dealing with the cell phones RF we are dealing with the WIFI RF, these all will cause interference with diodes, transistors and even unshielded Ethernet components. All this combined can mag for a very messy solution.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 01:31 am:   

May I ask why there is a limitation on the DUN connections? I have written software that is able to select and use multiple connection simultaneously with out issue before. Also, one would think you wouldn't need to drop a connection and just keep it open instead of disconnecting and dialing again.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 01:56 am:   

Why I ask is even using multiple PPP connections, multiple gateways are supported in windows and can all be handled via simple routing built into windows.
Des - NowSMS Support
Board Administrator
Username: Desosms

Post Number: 5667
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 02:23 am:   

The dedicated modem problem is talking to the same MMSC (or GW) IP simultaneously over multiple gateways/devices. Different operator OK, same operator = block.

I understand what you are saying about WiFi, but you are assuming constant streaming traffic. MMS has a lot of latency. And there are speed limitations on the operator network side, especially if you have a large number of devices transmitting simultaneously.

How many messages of what size are you transmitting? What WiFi throughput is required?
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 08:22 am:   

Have you considered making each connection its own application? Changing sockets per application to bind to a different floating IP on each interface.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 08:27 am:   

Another option is a proxy connection bound to each interface, each outbound message gets sent through a different proxy.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 08:34 am:   

another option, witch would not be multi threaded but would be simple to implement and speed sending up 10 fold, connect all PPP cennections, keep all connection active and change the metrix every time you send a new MMS. This would eliminate the long wait between dial ups and would switch connections to whatever connection has the top priority instantly.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 08:53 am:   

Another possible solution, simply use the route command. ROUTE ADD -P (IP) MASK 255.255.255.0 (IP). This would force traffic to what adapter has what IP. Im sure you can pull the IP information of each connection and load it into a variable to execute a route for each adapter.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 09:11 am:   

Sorry, last possible solution. You could use virtual adapters bound to each interface, each adapter set with static routing. Wouldn't be to hard to code this.
Jason
New member
Username: Tech180

Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 09:13 am:   

Here is an open source application demonstration how you can use multiple outbound connections. Its is command based, so should be simple to integrate.

https://r1ch.net/projects/forcebindip
Bryce Norwood - NowSMS Support
Board Administrator
Username: Bryce

Post Number: 8146
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 09:24 pm:   

Hi Jason,

We appreciate the brainstorming.

I've asked one of our engineers to take a fresh look at this code. And based on a preliminary review, he thinks the problem is related to the last item you posted. We were using a similar technique, but it was not working as it should. So we are taking a closer look as to why. He thinks he sees something else we are doing that is causing a conflict.

Unfortunately, he's getting ready to go on holiday, but we will try this change later this month.

As for the MMSC without a gateway, that is more complicated. We need to do a connection specific DNS lookup which requires writing our own DNS resolver, which should not be too difficult.


quote:

another option, witch would not be multi threaded but would be simple to implement and speed sending up 10 fold, connect all PPP cennections, keep all connection active and change the metrix every time you send a new MMS. This would eliminate the long wait between dial ups and would switch connections to whatever connection has the top priority instantly.




This is a different, completely unrelated issue.

If you are sending MMS only, delete the modem from the "SMSC" list, and use the "MMSC Routing" only...and the connection will stay active. The issue is that sending/receiving SMS requires accessing the modem in a different way. (Receiving MMS is triggered by receiving an SMS, so it also affects.) So, the connection needs to be dropped to see received messages, or send SMS.

Some modems provide 2 virtual COM ports, so that both activities can occur simultaneously (like in an actual phone).

-bn

Bryce Norwood
Now SMS/MMS Support
Des - NowSMS Support
Board Administrator
Username: Desosms

Post Number: 5772
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 07:14 pm:   

Delayed follow-up info...

This is an old thread that we forgot about because it was posted in an unsupported area of the forum.

We did finally find a satisfactory solution to address both of the issues discussed here to address limitations of using dedicated USB GSM modem devices.

1.) Support for MMSC connections via a GSM modem without a WAP gateway or proxy.

2.) Simultaneous MMS transmission via multiple GSM modems to the same operator MMSC.

The latest information can be found in the following thread:

https://support.nowsms.com/discus/messages/485/73763.html

The technical detail in this current thread is interesting, as Windows is supposed to implement a strong host model, which should make #2 easy. However a lack of support for policy-based routing or multiple FIB creates routing problems when multiple modems are connected to the same operator over dial-up connections. The strong host model should overcome these issues, but we have consistently observed that it does not.

I'm not privy to all of the technical details, but we do have a solution that is working with these scenarios, which can be found in the thread referenced above.


--
Des
NowSMS Support

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